Disabled Lives Matter


October 29, 2021

Disabled Lives Matter
Season 1, Episode 35
Co-Hosts: Nadine Vogel & Norma Stanley
Guest: Kyle Maynard


Intro: [Music playing in background] Disabled Lives Matter... here we go!

Voiceover: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the disabled lives matter podcast with co-hosts Nadine Vogel and Norma Stanley… yay!

Nadine Vogel: Hello Hello everybody, this is nadine vogel your co host of the podcast disabled lives matter, and I am joined by my fabulous co host norma Stanley.

NORMA STANLEY: Hello everyone.

Nadine Vogel: And as norma and I always say this is much more than a podcast, this is a movement and y'all need to join this movement now.

NORMA STANLEY: Absolutely.

Nadine Vogel: Right. Well, this is going to be a really exciting episode, because we are joined by Kyle Maynard.

Nadine Vogel: kyle is well he's a lot of things he's an entrepreneur speaker best selling author he's an award winning extreme athlete because being a general it is not enough.

Nadine Vogel: And the first man to bear crawl to the top of the highest mountain in Africa mount kilimanjaro and a summit of argentina's Mount. Aconcagua, if I said that right.

Nadine Vogel: Aconcagua, if I said that right, which I think is the highest peak in both hemispheres so i'm just going to start with this um first of all Kyle I don't know how many people you really are because I don't know one person that can actually do all those things.

Nadine Vogel:  [Laughter.]

Kyle Maynard:  [Laughter.]

Kyle Maynard: There may be a few doppelgangers out there.

Kyle Maynard: Yeah.  If I do anything too bad, then I can blame it on them.

Nadine Vogel: Oh, my gosh um so first of all talk about what is bear crawl.

Kyle Maynard: Bear crawling is basically the way that I walk.

Kyle Maynard: So I know we're recording video, but basically to give your listeners like a perspective i'd.

Kyle Maynard: I walk from like from my elbows and knees.

Kyle Maynard: And so.

Kyle Maynard: A lot of people I know with like you know in chairs and stuff like that, like you know the transfer out.

Kyle Maynard: You know, get on to a different things to climb up on different stuff for me I don't really use a chair in my house at all, so when I walk up just walking on my elbows and knees.

Nadine Vogel: Okay, so that's what that is so now, if I understood correctly, I think that you had you were born with this condition, but in your entire life you've never used any kind of prosthetics.

Kyle Maynard: I used to when I was younger.


Nadine Vogel: Okay.

Kyle Maynard:  Basically um.

Kyle Maynard: I use them to help with like.

Kyle Maynard: Certain things like reaching certain things.

Nadine Vogel: Okay.

Kyle Maynard: And I still sometimes will use similar things like stools are cherries, are that kind of stuff you can jump up on countertops but the prosthetics I would use this like hooks to grab on the stuff.

Nadine Vogel: got it got it, so I am really, really height impaired just so you know, and so let me just tell you anything I can take I will take like hangers.

Nadine Vogel: And hooks and everything's just to reach things because I can't reach anything which is in no way anything like living with a disability.

Nadine Vogel: But just from a height perspective and trying to get to things I tell people all the time, like you know what do you think is typical height, because to me it always seems like it should be the jolly jolly green giant the way everybody uses things to reach you know.

Nadine Vogel: So you know you've been very focused on on living independently from the very beginning, so how does someone with with disabilities, such as the ones you have.

Nadine Vogel: Go to become like a championship wrestling I think you're a crossfit certified instructor I can't imagine doing crossfit on my best physical day.

Nadine Vogel: So, how did you get from one place to the other like what what took you there.

Kyle Maynard: Basically, it was I first fell in love with it, I found there's a video online it's a it's kind of obscure name but it's called the nasty girls.

Kyle Maynard: Okay, so there were these then it's a workout for their these three these three girls that were like Eva T was one, there was a girl named Nicole.

Kyle Maynard: Can't remember Nicole's last name.

Kyle Maynard: and annie sakamoto I think was the other.

Kyle Maynard: So I watched that video and I just fell in love with it, and I was like man, this is this awesome the sport everything about it like it was very similar to like this kind of like philosophy that I had you know, training, the wrestling stuff like that.

Nadine Vogel: growing up.

Kyle Maynard: So it was on it was yeah it was just a that's kind of where I fell in love with it, and I remember one of the girls.

Kyle Maynard: At the end of.

Kyle Maynard: The first workout.

Kyle Maynard: She cried.

Kyle Maynard: And I was like whoa you know that's that's insane that's like that level of intensity would bring somebody to that position.

Nadine Vogel: Right right, it is intense and you said you you started this very young so i'm curious from a parent perspective, how they reacted to you doing this with they nervous for you, I mean.

Nadine Vogel: I I have an adult daughter, with significant physical disabilities and I, you know would always anytime she wants to do something that I thought was a little too physical I would get so nervous.

Kyle Maynard: yeah.

Nadine Vogel: You know how did your parents react.

Kyle Maynard: I could always kind of um.

Kyle Maynard: accepted the fact that, like some of the things I wanted to do, maybe they weren't their favorite things.

Kyle Maynard: You know, stepping in a cage at MMA I think that was probably the most extreme.

Kyle Maynard: it's definitely something that was totally totally different than.

Kyle Maynard: Yes, i'd done before.

Nadine Vogel: yeah that would scare the bejesus out of me.

Nadine Vogel: So you have written a book, if I recall correctly called No Excuses, and I believe it's a New York Times bestseller um when you say no excuses talk to us what's behind that.

Kyle Maynard: Basically it's it's like the philosophy of it is, is that there's always like an excuse or reason to not do something.

Nadine Vogel: mm hmm.

Kyle Maynard: Right and there's always going to be a you know a thing that keeps us from our potential in life, and that that you know, identifying what those things are is that the first step to be able to do something about it.

Kyle Maynard: It was something that my wrestling coach came up with I didn't get the credit for it, he said he would say you know, during practices basically.

Kyle Maynard: You know kids would come up to me, complain like on my wrist hurts my leg hurts, and all that he'd say like oh kyle probably wishes that he had wrist or a leg to hurt. and.

Nadine Vogel: Right. So i'm curious you know this this story this book on and in this focus of you know no excuses you're a public speaker.

Nadine Vogel: On you speak to audiences of students of executives of other athletes, so when you when you speak to them about this and coming from the perspective of someone with a disability, how do you find the audiences react and respond to it are they different from one another, for some reason.

Kyle Maynard: yeah it's um it's kind of a wide range of different groups over the years it's been like you know that's kind of the cool thing about it so i've gotten perspective from like elementary school classrooms all the way up to fortune 500 companies, you know.

Kyle Maynard: Military special operations groups, you know wrestling teams to like NC double-A gymnastics events all kinds of stuff you know and where we met with the runway dreams right like it's a totally different thing in terms of like a fashion related.

Kyle Maynard: bank so it's it's been pretty cool that the the message itself is a seeming way sort of fairly universal one um.

Kyle Maynard: And so you know it sort of blends and lends itself to being adaptable in different groups.

Nadine Vogel: Right, right. Well you know it's just interesting because um.

Nadine Vogel: I think that people pick up on things differently right depending what their own experiences are, and so you know, we know that and we've experienced here that you know children.

Nadine Vogel: especially younger children they fear disability because it's not known to them that they don't know what to expect, and so I just wonder what they take away from that presentation from hearing you then you know someone who's 50 years old, live their life and said yeah I get it.

Kyle Maynard: yeah there's I mean definitely different different people say different things.

Kyle Maynard: I remember one one kid that stands out there was a speech in like a small mining town in West Virginia and he said afterwards, you were like talking about their dreams like what do you want to do when you grow up and said, I want to work at mcdonald's.

Kyle Maynard: And I was like.

Kyle Maynard: that's awesome wasn't what I was expecting but. You know.

Nadine Vogel: it's yeah it's interesting perspective is everything right.

Nadine Vogel: And I know, one of the groups that that you also speak with quite often, and not just speak with but you've committed time and resources to is working with wounded and recovering veterans so, can you tell us a little bit about that.

Kyle Maynard: Sure um yeah so it's been a dream of mine to you know, since I was a kid I dreamed about serving in the military that the.

Kyle Maynard: You know, for me, like the.

Kyle Maynard: The cards that I was still you know it's something that was going to be possible, so it's something that you know it's just.

Kyle Maynard: I think those those dreams have kind of changed and evolved over time and I realized that I could go and contribute in a different sort of way right.

Kyle Maynard: And I think that that sort of you know it's a similar thing that a lot of the troops have to deal with when they come back home with an injury right it's like how do they go and continue to.

Kyle Maynard: provide meaningful value and service in a way that you know after they've endured some sort of injury yeah.

Nadine Vogel: Right.  And I would think that you uniquely can help them from the standpoint of you live with this your whole life right they said they've suddenly been thrown into it.

Kyle Maynard: it's a.

Kyle Maynard: it's it's a different thing, though, to I mean, given the fact that, like I have grown up.

Kyle Maynard: With it, you know they haven't.

Nadine Vogel:  Right.

Kyle Maynard: So you.

Kyle Maynard: Should have seen that in the world that have disability, a lot we have different people that you know adapted to different things at different times you know, sometimes like there's injuries and you know just different life things that happen and occur.

Kyle Maynard: Even even with covid you know it's i've got a friend last night that I was texting with that literally she was saying that like she's she's having a super hard time with the like with.

Kyle Maynard: Depression and like like mental health stuff as a consequence of covid I was like wow I never really thought that that was, you know that that was a thing right like it's not something that gets covered all the time.

NORMA STANLEY: Right yeah.

Nadine Vogel: we've been on it springboard I would say, probably more than any other topic that we've had for request for in the last year and a half to do, training and resilience programming is around anxiety and depression related to covid.

Kyle Maynard: Really.

Nadine Vogel: Yeah.

Kyle Maynard: Wow is it in terms of people that have had the virus, or is it people that were like dealing with the lockdown.

Nadine Vogel: Everything 

Kyle Maynard: Or both.

Nadine Vogel:  Yeah so we have folks you know that that had been dealing with working from home and really feel like they need to be in an environment with other people.

Nadine Vogel: Then you have folks are working like in a distribution Center have to be with other people that really feel like they want to be.

Nadine Vogel: You know, working at home, we have folks who have children with disabilities at home that when they couldn't go to school, the parents were really struggling with how to help them and not have them regressed either physically or.

Nadine Vogel: academically right whatever whatever the issues were on, we also have issues of just people now it's there's so much uncertainty.

Nadine Vogel: You know my employer said we're going to go back to work in October well here's October, now they said, well, maybe January will make like.

Nadine Vogel: People are just struggling in different ways, and I I you know, I wonder how and maybe you can share with our audience are there other pieces in that in your no excuses book.

Nadine Vogel: That could apply to this, and maybe you could help them kind of get out of some of the way they're feeling because mental health is thoughts and feelings right it's a disability, that we don't see.

Kyle Maynard: it's actually it's been so long since I.

Kyle Maynard: Since I wrote the book.

Nadine Vogel: That's your homework, you need to go back.

Kyle Maynard: You mean, go back and read the book.

Nadine Vogel: [Laughter.] And they come back and talk about it um you know, I think, even for folks listening, I mean norma you, you and I were talking about this, I was telling her you that you do Brazilian Jiu jitsu.

Nadine Vogel: So why don't you just first tell our audience what that is and how it's different than other jujitsu because.

Nadine Vogel: I read a little bit about it, and my mind was like blown.

Kyle Maynard: yeah it's a.

Kyle Maynard: So basically.

Kyle Maynard: The short story with that is is that it's like.

Kyle Maynard: Three dimensional wrestling.


Kyle Maynard: So it's in the wrestling wrestling take a very two dimensional kind of like impact kind of like force on force on that thing and jujitsu I think is just adds a new dimension to it.

Kyle Maynard: Because in wrestling you can't be pinned right are you The goal is to not be pinned in jujitsu it opens up the dimension and allows you to get to learn to fight from the back.

Kyle Maynard: So it's.

Kyle Maynard: It that just yet kind of adds like a different layer of have a whole new world and it opens up with that and it's not necessarily that one is like you know superior or.

Kyle Maynard: or not it's.

Kyle Maynard: I mean, there is an objective aspect to that, I think.

Kyle Maynard: If I were to choose kind of an equally matched.

Kyle Maynard: Jiu jitsu.

Kyle Maynard: fighter compared to a wrestler I would say, probably I put my money on the jujitsu person nine outta 10 times.

Kyle Maynard: I mean it's depends I mean if it's if it's actually maybe maybe less maybe less than that maybe.

Kyle Maynard: somewhere between six and eight is it's.

Kyle Maynard: yeah it's actually in wrestling it teaches you how to like control the space much more effectively right, so you can.

Kyle Maynard: You can force take Downs and things like that, and if you're in a in a fight, you know, in a street fight kind of situation self Defense situation, then you don't want to end up on your back.

Kyle Maynard: But in jujitsu too at the same time, if it's a one verse one like even fight where there aren't other people that are involved in it, and I think that, like.

Kyle Maynard: jujitsu probably superior because it allows you to be able to go and do things with wrestling while right wrestling tells you don't break this person's arm don't choke the person.

Kyle Maynard: Don't you know don't go to your back and get pinned in jujitsu that's the goal.

Kyle Maynard: Right is not necessarily it's.

Kyle Maynard: it's yeah to do all the things that wrestling tells you not to do.

Kyle Maynard: So when you first go into wrestling from Jiu jitsu than it like you, basically, are taught all these like super bad habits.

Nadine Vogel: Right right, you have to unlearn things.

Kyle Maynard: Exactly.

Nadine Vogel: Wow. That's kind of interesting. So we have to break for commercial, but when we come back Kyle because you.

Nadine Vogel: professionally speak all over the world, you know you're always traveling so i'd like to talk about how one covid has kind of had an impact on that, but then two just about you know accessible travel.

Nadine Vogel: And what that looks like, and you know if you have thoughts for the travel industry we'd love to hear some of that.

Nadine Vogel: So let's just go to commercial break, and this is Nadine Vogel with Norma Stanley our guest Kyle Maynard and we'll back in just a minute don't go anywhere.

Voiceover:  And now it's time for a commercial break.

Have you attended a springboard Consulting event? Well, you should, we have the best events and our 2022 events are just under way. Firstly is the Brg Summit happening on Tuesday, April 26th, and then following that is Disability Matters. North America Conference and Awards that's happening Wednesday and Thursday, April, 27 and 28. Both events are being delivered by a live stream. If interested in attending, please visit www.consultspringboard.com for more information.

Voiceover:  And now back to our show.

Nadine Vogel: So kyle I am so excited to be talking to you today Norma and I have had many conversations about travel and accessible travel as folks know she has an adult daughter Sierra he's a wheelchair and.

Nadine Vogel: I mean you travel all over the world, well, I mean I don't know about with covid I guess know we should start there I don't know what your travel schedule.

Nadine Vogel: has been like covid and how its impacted maybe we'll start with that, but now what i'd love to understand is your perspective.

Nadine Vogel: On traveling with a disability, and you know, helping the industry understand that disability doesn't just mean someone's coming here in a wheelchair.

Nadine Vogel: Right and how we how we address that.

Nadine Vogel: So it's all yours.

Kyle Maynard: So.

Kyle Maynard: I think I have a unique perspective of being able to travel, I mean there's there's definitely some difficulties but um you know it's by and large I use a like a push wheelchair, as opposed to a.

Kyle Maynard: Okay yeah.

Norma Stanley: Motorized.

Kyle Maynard: Like dead motorized heavy powered wheelchairs.

Nadine Vogel:  Right.

Kyle Maynard: it's um.

Kyle Maynard: My first trip that I ever took on my own I used a heavy motorized wheelchair, and so it was a landed in Las Vegas and have added you know, a 250 pound chair.

Kyle Maynard: And I had to figure out how to get from the hotel to from the airport to the hotel and.

Kyle Maynard: ended up booking a ticket on a on a bus that was like a special there's like a tour bus Basically, this is only thing that had a lift.

Kyle Maynard: To find like a cab you know I think now and Vegas they have a bunch of the caps that have ramps and such a time that you know wasn't the case, and so it was super just difficult thing to you know to deal with.

Kyle Maynard: And then, basically, you know I realized at that point that I wanted to go and travel with the with the.

Kyle Maynard: The Non mechanical chair, with the most share and it helped things a lot um.

Kyle Maynard: So.

Kyle Maynard: yeah that's basically you know, one of my main reasons for for doing that I know you know it's just not easy to get around when you're when you're dealing with that 300 plus pound chair.

NORMA STANLEY: Yeah. I'm always dealing with that.

NORMA STANLEY: Because of my daughter I sustained you know nerve damage in my arm, as a result of putting my daughter in and out of her wheelchair.

NORMA STANLEY: In the car, you know, putting it in the car every day for the last 30 years, and so you know, I was moving towards the motorized chair probably so I wouldn't have to do as much of that every day, but you know when I travel, I actually prefer to the push chairs.

NORMA STANLEY: And i've heard that.

NORMA STANLEY: the motorized chairs, they damage them when they travel with them.

NORMA STANLEY: And also, you know they're highly expensive, so I you know I probably will be using a pushchair as a as a backup when we do both go out of town.

NORMA STANLEY: You know, just to be on the safe side because I mean those things are you know aren not just simple to come by as some people think.

Kyle Maynard: Totally yeah and it's also you know you feel for the perspective of the airlines to right like it's you know the planes have a certain amount of weight that they can go and carry and then you know you add another.

Kyle Maynard: You know 300 plus pound chair to the to the mix and it's you know.

NORMA STANLEY: yeah that's a whole nother situation that's true.

Nadine Vogel: It but in terms of travel Kyle, what have you found um you know traveling in the US versus traveling in other countries.

Nadine Vogel: Because obviously you've traveled all around the world, what kind of perspective can you share as someone.

Nadine Vogel: Who has a disability, who is who is able to get around every place but you know what what kinds of issues have you faced or have you had to overcome, so to speak, because of your disability.

Kyle Maynard: yeah it's it's it's super.

Kyle Maynard: You something we take for granted, I think, being in the US, you know it's a relatively younger country as opposed to like being in Europe, for instance.

Kyle Maynard: More and a lot of like developing areas of the world.

Kyle Maynard: I think that they have similar challenges for different reasons, so in in Europe, you got massive cobblestones yeah.

Kyle Maynard: Just like that, and its historic buildings right that are these ancient buildings that they.

Kyle Maynard: Say it's really tough to to get around.

Kyle Maynard: And then.

Kyle Maynard: In.

Kyle Maynard: In other developing areas of the world like Bali is one of my favorite places.

Norma Stanley:  I always wanted to go there.  

Kyle Maynard: Ah it's amazing.

Kyle Maynard: This is really special place but it's really hard to get around even for me to get around there was like was really difficult.

Nadine Vogel:  Really.

Kyle Maynard: Yeah it was.

Kyle Maynard: yeah super challenging.

Nadine Vogel: How do you find the perspective of the people in the different countries, so you know one part of accessibility is that is a physical accessibility, but then we have you know all the other components about how people communicate how they willing to how comfortable, they are engaging.

Nadine Vogel: You know what have you found there.

Kyle Maynard: um let's say it's.

Kyle Maynard: A pretty universally seems as though it's kind of like one of the biggest perks of being born with a disability is.

Kyle Maynard: it's a.

Kyle Maynard: bit kind of you know, I think it helps people make you, you know helps people be more compassionate and understanding, I think.

Kyle Maynard: If. That makes sense yeah.

Kyle Maynard: At least that what i've experienced.

Kyle Maynard: um it's definitely not always the case.

Kyle Maynard: yeah I would say.

Kyle Maynard: That it's basically that's a.

Kyle Maynard: People are for the most part they're pretty understanding.

Kyle Maynard: other places where people like Americans traditionally like don't really have you know that people aren't that Nice to him, like in in France France that's right it's like traveling through France people were awesome and super nice to me.

Nadine Vogel:  Okay.

Kyle Maynard: In um

Kyle Maynard: You know from other Americans that i've heard say that that's definitely not the case.

Nadine Vogel: yeah like. How did I not have.

Nadine Vogel: That experience.

Kyle Maynard:  Exactly.

Nadine Vogel: So I know we only have like a couple minutes left, but one of the things that I know has been really, really important to you is nutrition and health.

Nadine Vogel: I mean, obviously, from all the sports side of everything you do, but even just you know what you put in your body things like that um I think I think it's something that can help everyone so, can you can you share a little bit about that.

Kyle Maynard: yeah um you know.

Kyle Maynard: Probably in the state right now relearning a lot of that stuff.

Kyle Maynard: Okay it's not something i've spoken about publicly yet, but I actually just as up like two days ago.

Kyle Maynard: got diagnosed with a brain injury.

Nadine Vogel:  Oh no. I'm so sorry.

Kyle Maynard: I'm hesitating.

Kyle Maynard: Even saying that publicly but it's something that's like a totally new disability aspect of things that i've never you know I had to deal with so basically.

Kyle Maynard: I was told that I have currently a dime sized hole in my brain from like potentially from like taking a knee in jiu jitsu, but not entirely sure what.

Kyle Maynard: it's been that way for a while it's kind of been battling just depression, anxiety other things like that sleep issues stuff that I hadn't had to deal with before.

Kyle Maynard: So it's um.

Kyle Maynard: You know i'm in the process of kind of re learning a lot of.

Kyle Maynard: You know just life stuff.

Nadine Vogel: Sure. Sure.

Nadine Vogel: Understandably so, so I think my my last question for you and I think it it kind of brings all of it together.

Nadine Vogel: What is it that drives you I mean you are so unbelievably driven right beyond no excuses it's like God forget the excuses that's all right.

Nadine Vogel: What what is, what is your mindset like, how do you do that.

Kyle Maynard: Uh. Do what.

Nadine Vogel: Just be so driven right, no matter what you're told what your slot with what happens is like yeah okay fine move on we're going to get past it we're going to you know one plus one is going to be three.

Nadine Vogel: we're going to just make this the best way to make it, how do you I know our listeners, you know, want to hear that they want to hear.

Nadine Vogel: My gosh I complain about my daily thing, and I have just this but look at everything kyle you know, has had to deal with is dealing with yet he is just fighting fighting pushing pushing moving it's a mindset issue, but I think our listeners would love to know how you get that mindset.

Kyle Maynard: The first thing I would say is I don't have that mindset daily it's something that like have to continually battle and. You know.

Nadine Vogel:  Okay.

Kyle Maynard: um and I think it's especially been difficult lately.

Kyle Maynard: Um. And that's Okay, you know it's a.

Kyle Maynard: it's it's not a it's not a one size fits all approach with things right, but I think faith is a big aspect of it.

Kyle Maynard: spirituality.

Kyle Maynard: Just constantly learning psychology philosophy as much as I can you know take in different different perspectives and different things, exposing myself and being around people that inspire me.

Kyle Maynard: I think is is really is pretty pretty key um you know, I think.

Kyle Maynard: Our mental.

Kyle Maynard: Mental diet, so to speak, is a big aspect of what.

Kyle Maynard: Like.

Kyle Maynard: Fuels us.

Kyle Maynard: Yes, it's sort of do we have our physical things so you're asking about like you know, nutrition and that kind of stuff right.

Kyle Maynard: I think that's it's also like the diet perspective is coming from like what in who were taking it in interacting with and what we're allowing ourselves to be influenced by.

Nadine Vogel:  Right.

NORMA STANLEY: environment.

Kyle Maynard: yeah like environmental factors may be that we wouldn't like morally consider as environmental factors that are probably some of the most environmental factors right like they think it was um.

Kyle Maynard: Was it Stephen covey who is on.

Kyle Maynard: No. Dale carnegie's another when it comes alive it wasn't him there is that it was Tony robbins mentor he said i'm actually just.

Norma Stanley:  Jim Rohn

Kyle Maynard: Jim Rohn. that's it.

Nadine Vogel: I know i'm like okay i'm running your name in my head.

Nadine Vogel: You win the prizes norma.

Kyle Maynard: He he said.

Kyle Maynard: You know you're most influenced by the five people you spend the most time with.

NORMA STANLEY: yeah yeah.

Nadine Vogel: That is for sure.

Kyle Maynard: And so I think lately i've tried to like have a bit more of like a group let's kind of like elimination of the like the things that are are the people that I want to spend time with.

NORMA STANLEY: Amen. I'm in the same space, I hear you.

Kyle Maynard:  Yup.

Nadine Vogel: You know it's it's important it's um I think sometimes we don't realize how toxic people are environments can be.

Nadine Vogel: But we get in a rut right we just get you know used to it here's what we do every day here, so we talked to every day we don't we don't realize the impact, so I think in closing kyle if you can think of one thing one situation, one person that just really motivates you.

Nadine Vogel: What would the be or who would that be.

Kyle Maynard: Lately it's been my family for sure.

Kyle Maynard: which you know is i've gotten into it a lot with them actually move back to Georgia, where I grew up pre covid.  And um.

Kyle Maynard: So we spend a lot of time together.

Kyle Maynard: And i've gotten in, and you know gotten into it with them, just like.

Kyle Maynard: A lot.

Kyle Maynard: But at the same time, I really appreciate the lessons that they taught me.

Kyle Maynard: And the life and that just you know.

Kyle Maynard: kind of like we were talking about just you know being fortunate in fact of like where we're born right like you know living in America living in a place that has like accessibility has you know other resources that other places on the rest of the world don't.

Nadine Vogel:  Right.

Kyle Maynard: You know it's a really.

Kyle Maynard: Special.

Kyle Maynard: Special thing and it's the I think that, like i'm very fortunate and blessed in the family that I was born into as well, even though you know, sometimes we all get into it with with each other right.

Nadine Vogel:  Nah.

Kyle Maynard: yeah that's a.

Nadine Vogel:  Really.

Nadine Vogel: Well, I think that's that's important, and I know you know norma and for Norma and myself, we want to thank your family for giving you to us.

Kyle Maynard:  Awe. Thank you.

Nadine Vogel: You know even with all of the.

Nadine Vogel: You know inspiration you look to others, for you inspire so many and and and not and not because you have a disability, but but I mean just all of the things that you do.

Nadine Vogel: That you think you 99% of the population, they have no disabilities couldn't do it.

Norma Stanley:  That's right.

Nadine Vogel.  Right.  And I think that's why we started this this podcast because.

Nadine Vogel: Disability does matter, and I think you're a perfect example of it and we just want to thank you and your family for letting us talk with you and talk about that.

Kyle Maynard:  Absolutely.

Nadine Vogel: Actually have that real conversation so.

Nadine Vogel: I just want to say thank you and wish you the best, especially with this new the latest news you've had health news so good luck with that.

Nadine Vogel: And anytime you want to come back on the show you just let us know, but this is another episode, we are closing out of disabled lives matter, not just the podcast what is it norma.

NORMA STANLEY: It is a movement. Join us.

Nadine Vogel: It is a movement babe.

Nadine Vogel.  Alright, everybody will see you next time.

Kyle Maynard.  Bye.  Thank you guys.

NORMA STANLEY: be blessed.

Closing comment:  [Music playing in background.] Thank you for listening to this week's episode of disabled lives matter. We look forward to seeing you next Thursday.  Have a great week!

Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed during the Disabled Lives Matter podcast series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Springboard Global Enterprises, Springboard Productions, and its employees, contractors, subsidiaries, and affiliates.  The developers of the Disabled Lives Matter podcast are not responsible and do not verify for accuracy any of the information contained in the podcast series available for listening on the Podbean hosting site and/or any other associated hosting entity. The Primary purpose of this series is to educate and inform, and does not constitute disability, medical and/or other professional advice, and/or service(s). This podcast is available for private, non-commercial use only. Advertising incorporated into, in association with, or targeted toward the content of this podcast, without the express approval and knowledge of the Disabled Lives Matter's site developers is forbidden. You may not edit, modify, or redistribute this podcast.  The developers of the Disabled Lives Matter site assume no liability for any activities in connection with this podcast or for use of this podcast in connection with any other Website, Computer, and/or listening device.




October 22, 2021

Disabled Lives Matter
Season 1, Episode 34
Co-Hosts: Nadine Vogel & Norma Stanley
Guest: Shawn Adkins & Jonathan Kendrick

Intro: [Music playing in background] Disabled Lives Matter... here we go!

Voiceover: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the disabled lives matter podcast with co-hosts Nadine Vogel and Norma Stanley… yay!


Nadine Vogel: Hello Hello everyone, this is nadine vogel you're host of disabled lives matter, and I am joined today by my fabulous co host norma Stanley.

NORMA STANLEY: Hi guys how you guys doing today.

Nadine Vogel: Everybody is really good I am I am just so excited because Well, first of all, as all of our listeners know.

Nadine Vogel: disabled lives matter, while it is a podcast it is much more than a podcast, it is a movement, and we want everyone to join this really important movement.

Nadine Vogel: And the way we're going to do that today is by talking with two amazing guests Jonathan kendrick and shawn adkins now jonathan i'm going to start with you, I've heard you recently referred to as a mastermind so that's a little ah I don't know if it's scary or exciting. Not really sure.

Nadine Vogel: So my understanding is that you are the founder and CEO of digital technology partners and um so just tell us a little bit about what you do and um what got you into helping individuals with disabilities.

Jonathan Kendrick: Well all right, for a couple of things there alright so i'm founder and CEO of digital technology partners, we are a I-T company that specializes in the dental industry.

Jonathan Kendrick: So we do everything from computers and networking audio video phone systems basically if it's technology inside of a dental practice we we we deal with it.

Jonathan Kendrick: The our work for Eli program, which is a division inside of digital technology partners is a e-waste recycling division and what they do is.

Jonathan Kendrick: They take all of our old technology they break it down they make sure that things go to the proper recyclers refineries and.

Jonathan Kendrick: They make sure that all of the protected health care information that comes in, on these computers gets properly destructed and provides a real service we employ adults with disabilities to.

Jonathan Kendrick: To man that department and do those services and we currently have seven adults with disabilities that work for us as employees of digital technology partners.

Nadine Vogel: very, very cool so you know interesting what one thing I thought was really fascinating when I was learning about what you guys do with dental industry, I am sure that you guys are aware, there's a

Nadine Vogel: whole industry within the dental industry that's all about caring for children with disabilities, that you know, especially with.

Nadine Vogel: developmental disabilities is a lot of issues with oral health care and there's some amazing programs we've interviewed on this show on our TV show.

Nadine Vogel: I know colgate has donated a million dollars recently to Pennsylvania, to put some research together we've had some special needs dentists on our programs.

Nadine Vogel: So I just kudos to you guys to say anything to do with this to me is like so important to the fact that you're doing this work and you employ people with disabilities, I love when things come together, you know I think it's really great.

Jonathan Kendrick: So know we get we get really excited about that too, we have a great client Dr andino for dentistry for the developmentally disabled.

Jonathan Kendrick: yeah right there in Atlanta.

Jonathan Kendrick: She is great she's awesome their their program is awesome and they are, they are solely.

Jonathan Kendrick: focused to these individuals as well.

Nadine Vogel: yeah it's that it's really important so but before I talk to shawn a little bit tell me, did you just wake up one morning and say Okay, I need to do this and in doing this, I need to employ people with disabilities or how did you come to this.

Jonathan Kendrick: That is that for shawn

Nadine Vogel: Now let's start with you, Jonathan.


Jonathan Kendrick:  Okay i'm sorry.

Nadine Vogel: Since you're the mastermind behind this.

Jonathan Kendrick: I heard that my apologies, I thought that you called his. name.

Jonathan Kendrick: So we in in about 2015 I was reading a book called the evolved enterprise by Yannick silver that book has that it talks about doing something more.

Jonathan Kendrick: With your company than just turning profits doing something for the greater good doing something to help people for more fulfillment than then just making profits which we.

Jonathan Kendrick: might do to be sustainable, obviously, and in reading that book some of the examples TOMS shoes, you know buy a pair of a pair a lot of different companies have.

Jonathan Kendrick: used this methodology and we were having a business issue need at that time where we're putting in all these new computers.

Jonathan Kendrick: And in the past, doctors, without me talk the way you do with these computers and I went to say you know donate them to your church give them your employees, etc, but as compliance and security regulations got.

Jonathan Kendrick: Stricter it wasn't a good answer and it wasn't an answer that we could actually give as their trusted advisor any longer.

Jonathan Kendrick: So computers were starting to stock up in our in our office and i'm reading this book and I didn't know much about e-waste, but I knew that you can't just recycle a computer, the way it was so.

Jonathan Kendrick: We were working with on a great company in Atlanta called E-cycle, we still partner with them and jeff's been great he's helped us tremendously.

Jonathan Kendrick: And I reached out to him and he was picking up our e-waste and I started learning a little bit more about it, you have to you know separate these parts, you have to.

Jonathan Kendrick: Take parts, you have to go through this process and I, you know it just hit me that you know that is something that my son Elijah could do my son Elijah.

Jonathan Kendrick: He'll be 16 he has down syndrome, he has autism, and I was trying to think about something eventually that he can do in our company if he decides to do that.

Jonathan Kendrick: When he gets old enough.

Jonathan Kendrick: And so anyway that's how the idea came came to me.

Jonathan Kendrick: And so we solved a business need a while also you know.

Jonathan Kendrick: coming up with opportunities and it.

Jonathan Kendrick: took me a couple of years in 2018 we finally got it going so.

Nadine Vogel: that's fabulous well so 2018 seems to be an important year because Sean Sean adkins that's when you joined.

Nadine Vogel: And my understanding is is.

Nadine Vogel: That you have dual roles with work for eli, which is one of the divisions and Brett works which is, I think another division that's nonprofit so, can you talk to us about your double duty yeah.

Shawn Adkins: Um, of course, thank you for having me again, I appreciate it um, so I am the programing director for the work for eli project I started in 2018.

Shawn Adkins: And when Jonathan said, there was a lot of PCs and electronic equipment in his warehouse he wasn't kidding I had a dive in that.

Shawn Adkins: headfirst trying to learn everything I possibly could about the computer just basic knowledge of what each of the pieces mean what's their worth.

Shawn Adkins: Jeff from e-cycle was very, very helpful with that and just trying to put together a plan and kind of a attack, if you will, on what his vision was and trying to take that vision and grow with that vision itself so.

Shawn Adkins: So, as he says, we employ seven we've got seven currently right now we've got 30 on a waiting list.

Nadine Vogel: wow.

Shawn Adkins: Yes. So, and with the 30 on the waiting list right now that's where we jumped in and we thought well we've got to do something for some of these individuals who are still waiting we've had.

Shawn Adkins: Our last hire that we have we he put in his resume in 2018 and we just hired him last year.

Nadine Vogel:  Oh, my Gosh.

Shawn Adkins:  Yeah so it's based off of you know, the product coming into us as much product, we can get in.

Shawn Adkins: The more we can give hours out and and help out these individuals with with a career employment and job security whatnot but so with that said.

Shawn Adkins: We began to think about what else we could do, and I think Jonathan can talk a little bit more about this.

Shawn Adkins: More in detail with the Brett works part, so I am the executive director Brett works and basically what it is, is we're bringing individuals in.

Shawn Adkins: and training them with soft skills and hard skills so we'll train them in here will train them with you know either being interviewing skills, working with others working alone.

Shawn Adkins: Even when it comes down to hey you're done with the break room let's make sure it's clean so when we actually.

Shawn Adkins: offer these positions to other employers out there after vetting these employers, you know they have a good knowledge of what's going to happen and what's going to go on within their company so.

Nadine Vogel: that's that's fabulous that that really is it's you know it just shows the.

Nadine Vogel: It just shows how aware, you are of the needs of individuals with disabilities to be employed.

Nadine Vogel: But it also shows, your recognition of their ability like anyone else to be gainfully employed right, so I think that that that's so important, so I guess one of my questions is you know.

Nadine Vogel: Obviously, I think we could go on and on about the rewards of working with adults with disabilities and certainly want to hear some of that, but can you also give us along with that some of the challenges if any of that you've experienced and this could be for either one of you.

Shawn Adkins: Well, some of the challenges that i've experienced is is I don't like to call them challenges I just like to call the learning lessons.

Nadine Vogel:  Okay.

Shawn Adkins: Basically um because every individual is different in their own way, who I work with and so you've got to sort of rethink who you're talking to as you're talking to them.

Shawn Adkins: But once you build that trust with that individual and that's, the most important thing, building the trust with them with the parents with their caregivers.

Shawn Adkins: It all comes into fruition and it's absolutely wonderful I learned every day I learned something new from them that I didn't know even about them, or about myself of what I could do.

Shawn Adkins: You know, patience is such a big virtue when it comes to this it's a huge virtue and so that's one element in my lifestyle that i've had a truly truly look at and say okay.

Shawn Adkins: Look who you're with. Look who you're dealing with, and you know let's just treat them like anybody else and that's what I do.

Shawn Adkins: I treat them like an adult by they give them we do competitive wages for them, we I give them their appraisals, I give them reviews and.

Shawn Adkins: You know it's it's it's wonderful to see that, in their eyes, because once they get that first paycheck if there's they say I know what i'm gonna do i'm going to my mother out to.

Shawn Adkins: lunch today.

Shawn Adkins: You know, with my pay check, so they are so excited you know they feel a sense of purpose and worth that a lot of people that i've seen in other companies that work.

Shawn Adkins: I would hire these guys over some of those guys any day it's amazing the work ethic.

Shawn Adkins: Their their absorption like a sponge with the knowledge that you present them and there's times, where we get some of the jonathan's texts that come back and looking for a part and they're like no no that's that's not the name of that part.

Shawn Adkins: They get they get a little school to once in a while, so that makes me feel proud that they that they learn those those different parts of it but there's so much more than just.

Shawn Adkins: The parts with the computer stuff like that it's socializing with other individuals it's building the relationships with other individuals, the team as a whole are there such great team they're.

Shawn Adkins: they're so connect with each other it's incredible how they feed off each other and how they work off each other and they're so caring and loving towards each other it's.

Shawn Adkins: it's truly amazing to see it and I always tell people if you're ever in the vicinity, please come by and see us and view that because it's incredibly awesome just so awesome.

Nadine Vogel: So norma, how do we clone these guys.

NORMA STANLEY: yeah right.

NORMA STANLEY: I know I I had an opportunity to go to the ribbon cutting services yep not too long ago, and it was so beautiful and yeah I love the idea I love the concept of what you're trying to do particularly trying to.

NORMA STANLEY: You know, make sure that other companies can can experience the the luxury and the abilities that our family members have people with disabilities have.

NORMA STANLEY: And just really get as many of our people employed as possible, so I think it's a beautiful thing, so this is one of the reasons why I said y'all gotta be on the show.

Nadine Vogel: No absolutely I you know and it's it's disheartening in some ways, you know that there's a waiting list, but you know I found that.

Nadine Vogel: For anything that's really worthwhile anything it's really good out there for people with just in general, but people with disabilities in particular there always seems to be that waiting list.

Nadine Vogel: right here it's not immediate because there's not enough of y'all doing this around the country, and you know, Jonathan obviously like you said you know your son.

Nadine Vogel: Elijah was you know the impetus to this and, in many ways, but you know it doesn't have to be right, it could be, because someone's working now with someone side by side, who has a disability that says wow there's so much more we could be doing right.

Nadine Vogel: I just I just love this and and i'm serious we need to figure out how to clone you guys.

Nadine Vogel: yeah well so i'm gonna we're gonna go on commercial break and so you guys think about cloning, while we're on break.

Nadine Vogel: we'll be back in just a minute, and then you know I wanna I want to hear from you guys a little bit about.

Nadine Vogel: You know what do you think people should know about working side by side with someone with a disability, because they think there's a lot of fear.

Nadine Vogel: There's bias raises me people trying to be mean but just didn't ever had that experience before so you know Shawn you gave us these really great examples of how wonderful it is.

Nadine Vogel: From a company perspective and how it benefits the individual, and I do agree with you, I think everyone everyone, no matter who they are, what their disability is has a right to work.

Nadine Vogel: Right has the right to be gainfully employed have their own money for housing for social for whatever it is, so I have major issues with that.

Nadine Vogel: So when we come back from break i'd love to hear what you guys think about how do we, how do we convert this so people really start getting comfortable right so stay tuned everybody, we will be back with Shawn and Jonathan and Norma in just a minute.

Jonathan Kendrick: Thank you.

Voiceover:  And now it's time for a commercial break.

Have you attended a springboard Consulting event? Well, you should, we have the best events and our 2022 events are just under way. Firstly is the Brg Summit happening on Tuesday, April 26th, and then following that is Disability Matters. North America Conference and Awards that's happening Wednesday and Thursday, April, 27 and 28. Both events are being delivered by a live stream. If interested in attending, please visit www.consultspringboard.com for more information.

Voiceover:  And now back to our show.

Nadine Vogel: Well welcome back everyone to the second half of today's episode of disabled lives matter more than just a podcast we are a movement.

Nadine Vogel: And we are talking today to Sean Atkins and Jonathan kendrick about digital technology partners, and specifically two Divisions that they have workfor eli and Brett works which is about employing adults with disabilities and norma take it away they're just doing such amazing things.

NORMA STANLEY: yeah you guys are doing some amazing work, and I am just really excited about what I saw at the new facility so tell us you know your perspectives about and tell other people who are listening, or when listen what it's like working with people with disabilities and they need to know.

Jonathan Kendrick: So i'll i'll start now i'm gonna lead shawn and carry on on, but that is part of so and I want to clarify a little bit so Brett works is the the nonprofit side. That we are just starting.

Nadine Vogel: Right. Right.

Jonathan Kendrick: And Brett works came along, because of our long waiting list you know 30 people waiting some for three years and it was how do we get people off this list, how do we get people moving, and how do we start you know.

Jonathan Kendrick: providing services to some of these individuals that have been waiting for so long, and so we brought the nonprofit as as a way to.

Jonathan Kendrick: raise some funds get people working and start educating employers other employers about the successes that we've had, which is exactly what you're.

Jonathan Kendrick: I think coming around to ask us norma and you know what what other employers i'm going to speak from the employer side of it and i'll let Shawn speak from.

Jonathan Kendrick: The working with the individuals themselves side or aspect of it, but what I would want other employers to know is, you know we always hear this what's the risk what's the production like gonna be like, and you know calm down. You know.

Jonathan Kendrick: Here's the thing, most of these individuals are not looking for 40 hours a week.

Jonathan Kendrick: The first of all, so that's the that's the first I don't know that I have a job, you know that I can really give someone 40 hours a week well guess what most of them don't want 40 hours a week.

Nadine Vogel:  Right.

Jonathan Kendrick: Most of ours work two to three days a week, and we, and the reason why Brett works is so so good for us right now is because we have.

Jonathan Kendrick: Three years of experience of doing this in our own company, so far, so we've learned a lot.

Jonathan Kendrick: So we as we brought on individuals, first we brought two and then we started expanding the hours and we started offering or or trying to offer more and what we found is that these individuals also have sometimes other commitments.

Jonathan Kendrick: They have to have their own you know they have to provide their own transportation to work so sometimes caregivers can't bring someone five days a week.

Nadine Vogel: Right. 

Jonathan Kendrick: But but. Those individuals still look very, very forward to coming to three days a week, for you know four or five hours a day.

Jonathan Kendrick: And it gives them that purpose of what they're looking for so that would be the first thing I would tell.

Jonathan Kendrick: An employer and part of our other part of what Brett works is going to be doing is like I said educating these employers.

Jonathan Kendrick: The other big key successes, the supportive system that you put behind them, so when employee employees come to work inside your facility and i'm gonna let.

Jonathan Kendrick: You know Shawn go on about all the benefits that you're going to get from it, because you will it's been amazing for our culture.

Jonathan Kendrick: Is it's just making sure that you're setting up a proper support structure inside that's going to allow that person to be successful at at that job and then, finally, I would say, keep an open mind.

Jonathan Kendrick: there's you have to sort of look around, I mean it's kind of like what I did on our e-waste.

Jonathan Kendrick: issue or problem, and you know I solved it with creating this division for for adults with disabilities but there's all kinds of things that can be done in the workplace.

Jonathan Kendrick: And when you really start thinking okay I don't have to solve a 40 hour problem I can solve, whatever hour problem there's a lot more opportunities that you can you can go look at, and as long as you have.

Jonathan Kendrick: The will the the the you know the desire for these people to really come in and help and then see all the benefits that we've seen there's just a ton of opportunities, all over the place, I think everyone wanted to know.

Nadine Vogel:  What I think you're saying Jonathan is that now we've talked to a lot of smaller businesses and they think oh that's for the really large companies.

Nadine Vogel: Just those are the global companies.

Nadine Vogel: That can do that, and I think what you're what you're showing clearly is that no this can be for midsize it can be for small businesses opportunities everywhere.

Nadine Vogel: And i'm just so glad to hear you talk about that because I hear that a lot only do we only have you know 15 employees 100 employees whatever we're not Coca Cola, you know another big company and it's always I scratch my head i'm like well, what does that have to do with anything.

Jonathan Kendrick: It really doesn't.

Nadine Vogel: So yeah so i'm glad that you address that because that fear factor as you know for anybody is big Shawn anything you want to add to that.

Shawn Adkins: yeah I do when he was talking about setting them up for success that's my biggest proponent of doing that.

Shawn Adkins: So every morning I send all of them an email and their caregivers and their parents, let them know what their goals are for the day.

Shawn Adkins: And they're realistic goals and sometimes we have competitions with these goals, just to have it a little bit fun.

Shawn Adkins: But I want them to know, and I want them to know that what they're going to be doing for the day so they're ready to go for that day.

Shawn Adkins: You know, and the parents know about it so they're excited to know okay so so and so's going to break down 15 PCs today, you know that's it that's their goal.

Shawn Adkins: If they don't hit their goal, then we talked about it, they say, well why didn't you hit it was there something going on, was it something wrong, you know and.

Shawn Adkins: And usually it's just like no I just had a hard time with this one PC and that's okay that's cool and then at the end of the day, i'll send off a note to all the parents saying this is what they did this is how they hit their goal.

Shawn Adkins: These are the things that we're going to work on going in the future, you know if you guys have any opinions or any sort of.

Shawn Adkins: Special thoughts that you can give me to to handle some of this please feel free to do so because i'm very open to suggestions.

Shawn Adkins: that's why I always want the parents and the caregivers always involved with me, I always make them involved with everything, because I know them.

Shawn Adkins: I try to know them, as well as they know them, but they might know a certain trick that I could use.

Shawn Adkins: To get them to work instead of me trying to figure out and get frustrated by it you know so it's.

Nadine Vogel: Got it.

Shawn Adkins: It's a blessing that we've had these individuals and like Jonathan was saying, I wish a lot more people were out there, educated by this, if you look right now there are so many job openings right now that nobody wants to go to work.

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Shawn Adkins: Look at that. Perfect example.

Shawn Adkins: These individuals can go in there and and work these jobs even being it, you know four hours two hours three hours.

Nadine Vogel: Yeah absolutely.

Shawn Adkins: love it, I mean there's times, where I got to tell my people to quit working.

Nadine Vogel:  Yeah.

Shawn Adkins: Because they just keep going and going.

Nadine Vogel: Work ethic.

Shawn Adkins: yeah. exactly.

Shawn Adkins: Oh it's so strong they come in early they leave right at their time they're supposed leave they know when so I gotta put clocks around the whole building and just so they know what time it is so they know is that time for them to go, you know we do the countdown process.

Nadine Vogel: You think about that that's like a dream employee right for any employer is the one that wants to stay to have that work ethic.

Nadine Vogel: um but then you know a lot of employers aren't connecting the dots right the way you are.

Nadine Vogel: But you know the other thing that you said shawn that just struck me as you're describing you know what you're doing I thought well at the end of the day, you may approach it a little bit differently, but it's performance management.

Nadine Vogel: I know we all do it all organizations its performance management, and you know you take it to a more granular level, you know daily, which is sometimes I think even people that don't have disabilities. could use that.

NORMA STANLEY: That's right.

Nadine Vogel: Right.  But, but something I do oh God we just have a couple minutes left, but something that you touched on that I really want to make sure we address before we before we end today, you mentioned engaging with the parents.


Nadine Vogel: So obviously these are individuals with intellectual or developmental disabilities these are not you know college graduates with disabilities things like that.

Nadine Vogel: But I have spoken and have worked with so many companies where that is actually what they fear the most.

Nadine Vogel: They say you know I don't want to have to deal with the parent, I mean i'm dealing with the employee and now i'll probably have to deal, maybe with a job coach.

Nadine Vogel: Or the parents and then, what happens if the parents want to get involved to ask questions, and you know get involved in the way i'm managing performance and I find that that's.

Nadine Vogel: that's one of those scary pile things for for a lot of folks so I just like you know, in the minute or two that we have left, could you touch on that.

Shawn Adkins: yeah i'd be more than happy to yeah.

Shawn Adkins: You know, for those individuals those naysayers out there, think they got to deal with them it's it's it's the best book that you can actually read is through them.

Shawn Adkins: It really is, I mean there's management books out there there's all kinds of books that you can read about managing about performance about skills about training about all that kind of stuff.

Shawn Adkins: But to get to know the person and to get to know them well you get to know them you get to know the parents and get the caregivers.

Shawn Adkins: it's not a big deal to talk with the parents and i'll be honest, I love talking with them, because they need to know i've had some individuals who come in for interviews are nervous because they're like well I don't want my my kid to be.

Shawn Adkins: You know, taken advantage of or you know stuff like that so i've got to say insurance i'm always talking to you guys, you know exactly what's going on, I incorporate them into all the parties in conference calls in everyting.

Shawn Adkins: they're still they're actually the parents and the caregivers are my secondary team.

Nadine Vogel: [Laughter.]

Shawn Adkins: You know without them, I wouldn't be successful with who they gave me to work with, which is also.

NORMA STANLEY: In this successful engagement and it's part of our culture, we have to be a part of what our children are doing.

NORMA STANLEY: Exactly I mean that's just the way we are as parents of children.

NORMA STANLEY: Just like that so.

Nadine Vogel: Then, and you know what I you know.

Nadine Vogel: And i'm even my older daughter, you know she's a college graduate but she has significant disabilities will have lifelong disabilities.

Nadine Vogel: And because of that, I have the same concerns right, even though she's independent lives independently, some of the same concerns that norma that you have to Sierra.

Nadine Vogel: Right even could Sierra can't communicate, I still have for for my daughter, and so I you know I can tell you both that you know you're talking with two special needs parents have adult daughters and you are just singing our song.

Jonathan Kendrick: It's a very collaborative.

Jonathan Kendrick: Environment right so and and we have so much to learn, you know and in to because we have seven every individual is so different.

Jonathan Kendrick: Why why start from the very beginning of trying to learn what we were doing and also learn that that that person may learn so much from their families.

Nadine Vogel: So just imagine is would be really controversial.

Nadine Vogel: But just imagine if we did that, for all employees that maybe we engaged with the parent.

Nadine Vogel: Or engaged with this spouse, you know when I was in corporate i'll tell you, you know 100 years ago when I interviewed someone, especially if it involves like a relocation, or something that was going to be major life impacting.

Nadine Vogel: I always interviewed spouse as well, and it was really not so much for me to ask them questions, but for them to ask me questions.

Nadine Vogel: Especially if they were going to be relocating and if they were a military spouse things where that job was going to impact them as well.

Nadine Vogel: I was not exactly the most popular girl in the world, and you know when I did that but.

Nadine Vogel: You know just hearing what you guys do it Shawn specifically how you engage with the families it's just takes me back to that and things.

Nadine Vogel: You know Johnny what you just said it's helpful because you know more about this individual is so, you know again i'm not even sure if that would be legal today to do but i'm.

Nadine Vogel: Putting it out there, because I do think it works.

Nadine Vogel: yeah so oh my gosh I cannot believe a half hour has just flown we are out of time, I feel like I could talk to you guys for like another few hours um norma Thank you so much.

NORMA STANLEY: i'm excited i'm so thankful that they were available.

NORMA STANLEY: To be a part of this.

Nadine Vogel: Well, I know that our listeners are going to just love hearing about this.

Nadine Vogel: Now, if they are a small business owner and they're thinking, I wanted to what you guys are doing, who should they contact and how.

Jonathan Kendrick: I would say, go to workforeli.com and put in a request.

Jonathan Kendrick: We have two different forms, we have one for pickups and we also have one for applications.

Jonathan Kendrick: You can you can email me at Jonathan@DTpartners.COM, you can email Shawn.Adkins@dtpartners.COM email us both we'd love to talk to any business owner honestly and help in any way we can.

Nadine Vogel: Well that's that's great, and I would like to say, and if we have someone to disability looking for a job, but that's going to give you more of a waiting list.

Nadine Vogel: But you just did just give me a forum, so if there is someone out there and they're in the area, again, maybe they can apply, you may have to create another organization.

NORMA STANLEY: And there may be some companies that.

NORMA STANLEY: would want to. just get some.

NORMA STANLEY: Helpful advice from you.

Nadine Vogel: Exactly, that's what I'm thinking.  You know, might be like hey we would love to do this, but we've been struggling with how wouldn't that be amazing.

Nadine Vogel: So with that I just want to say thank you so much Shawn and Jonathan, we wish you and all of your employees the very, very best.

Nadine Vogel: And for our listeners, we hope you enjoyed today's show, and we want to thank you and we will see you on another episode of disabled lives matter more than a podcast it's a movement right norma.

NORMA STANLEY: absolutely. my best to everyone.

Nadine Vogel: All right, bye guys.

Shawn Adkins: Thank you. 

Jonathan Kendrick: Bye.

Closing comment:  [Music playing in background.] Thank you for listening to this week's episode of disabled lives matter. We look forward to seeing you next Thursday.  Have a great week!

Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed during the Disabled Lives Matter podcast series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Springboard Global Enterprises, Springboard Productions, and its employees, contractors, subsidiaries, and affiliates.  The developers of the Disabled Lives Matter podcast are not responsible and do not verify for accuracy any of the information contained in the podcast series available for listening on the Podbean hosting site and/or any other associated hosting entity. The Primary purpose of this series is to educate and inform, and does not constitute disability, medical and/or other professional advice, and/or service(s). This podcast is available for private, non-commercial use only. Advertising incorporated into, in association with, or targeted toward the content of this podcast, without the express approval and knowledge of the Disabled Lives Matter's site developers is forbidden. You may not edit, modify, or redistribute this podcast.  The developers of the Disabled Lives Matter site assume no liability for any activities in connection with this podcast or for use of this podcast in connection with any other Website, Computer, and/or listening device.



October 14, 2021

Disabled Lives Matter
Season 1, Episode 33
Co-Hosts: Nadine Vogel & Norma Stanley
Guest: Levi Miller

Intro: [Music playing in background] Disabled Lives Matter... here we go!

Voiceover: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the disabled lives matter podcast with co-hosts Nadine Vogel and Norma Stanley… yay!


Nadine Vogel: Hello Hello everyone, this is nadine vogel your co host of disabled lives matter and, of course, as always, I am joined by my co host the amazing norma Stanley hey norma.

NORMA STANLEY: How are you guys doing.

Nadine Vogel: Good how are you doing today.

NORMA STANLEY: I'm great Thank you.

Nadine Vogel: Oh good. Well i'm just wondering if you would like to open our interview, today we have this amazing person joining us he's a teacher a speaker a strategist oh my gosh so many roles so i'm gonna let you take it away norma and then we'll go from there.

NORMA STANLEY: Well, Mister Levi Miller, who is going to be speaking with us today and sharing his expertise is he's an entrepreneur, and he actually is a former.

NORMA STANLEY: promoter in the radio industry and entertainment industry, and he has a construction company and he's going to tell us all about all he does, but he works, a lot with disabled veterans on employment, so thank you for being a part of disabled lives matter today, Mr Miller.

Levi Miller: Well, thank you for having me on their norma and nadine.  I'm glad to be on.

NORMA STANLEY: I am thankful that you had some time to participate, this year, this year, this and this show because we Bob is a busy the years gone by, so fast I can't believe it's October.

NORMA STANLEY: But you know I had a couple of conversations and I was really, really excited about learning how how you work, particularly with disabled veterans and your construction company, can you tell us a little bit about what that's all about.

Levi Miller: OK, firstly like you said i'm a disabled veteran a Vietnam veteran.

Levi Miller: Oh well, you know I ptsd so you have ptsd 100% disability and I always like to do something of my brothers and sisters well you know, a call them, from having been in the military.

Levi Miller: And always try to find a way to help them you know, especially the homeless vet.

Levi Miller: Because a lot of homeless vet is you know a lot of people say well you know they can do better, and this and that but.

Levi Miller: A lot of time, you know they can't find a job they had no medical insurance ad they go into bankruptcy with their family, so I, and I will try to find a way to try to help my brothers and sisters.

Levi Miller: So what I started doing first I started going to my American legion the vfw learn how to fill out claims, so I help other vendors to fill out their claims, you know with no charge at all, you know get them back on track.

Levi Miller: Uh. my company my radio station, which is WLMRDB radio, which I have a veteran show on there.

Levi Miller: And what we do, we will raise money on our veterans show, and we are like during the winter time, we will take blankets to the homeless veteran last year we acquired like 550 blankets.

Nadine Vogel:  Wos.

Levi Miller: And you know we gave it to the immediate family and we try to supply them with food, you know we'll use our 501 C 3 to go to you know places to like Krogers, where you know grocery stores and get them food.

Levi Miller: And after that we opened up construction company which called right real metal construction and what we do that construction company, we hire veterans and then we also teach them we give them free training course, you know how to get into the construction business and.

Levi Miller: And our next goal is to be build one house a year and give it to a veteran and give to a veteran and his family.  

NORMA STANLEY: That's awesome.

Levi Miller: So. that's what we're working real hard on.

NORMA STANLEY: That is such a sad thing, where you see people who have served our country and they don't get an opportunity to.

NORMA STANLEY: Come back and and live decent lives that they're you know became disabled mostly likely because of the war or whatever they were doing you were part of the Vietnam War.

Levi Miller: Yes

NORMA STANLEY: And they come back and they have no help and I just don't understand you said you're dealing with ptsd I know a few people who are dealing with that who are in the Vietnam.


NORMA STANLEY: How do you get people to understand that not it's not necessarily these people want to be in a situation of need it's just that the system failed them.

Levi Miller: Yes, navy was kind of the Vietnam veteran was kind of thrown away oh.

Levi Miller: You know, we throw it away.

Levi Miller: We have some awkward traits, you know, but we kind of throw it away can just imagine you and nadine, just, imagine you in the jungle fighting for 13 months, and then the next day you on the street, you know no rehab  or nothing there was no jobs for us, we was called baby killers we were call rapists.

Levi Miller: They say about everybody in Vietnam, you know, they was on drugs.

Levi Miller: Now Oh, excuse me if I break up you know sometime I break up when I talk about it.

Levi Miller: You know, it was a rough life if you apply for a job, like when I came out, I was like let him come back you know, I was the infantry oh I go file for a police job, they said no, you know you infantry you can't be trained no more.  you see what i'm saying they don't want to take a chance, with us.

Nadine Vogel: Well it's bias right it's bias at its core.

Nadine Vogel: Yes, Norma and I talk about it all the time.

Nadine Vogel: Right, you know implicit bias and and and that's a perfect example of it, and you know levi I would love to know your your thoughts because.

Nadine Vogel: You know today and in today's current wars, more and more men and women come back disabled than before, because many years ago, you know people would die in the field.

Nadine Vogel: Today you have a different medical technology that they're coming back and but coming back more with disabilities, whether it's post traumatic stress or amputee or something so.

Nadine Vogel: what's your perspective on how you think that's changed and how you think some of that bias, perhaps has changed if it's changed at all.

Levi Miller: Well, I think it changed a little bit nadine because these soldiers to get out now they have to go through maybe six six months or more, you know be deprogrammed whereas us Vietnam veterans we come back 13 months fighting and they throw you on the street and your brain your brain don't work like that.

Levi Miller: yeah so you know you don't have a lot you don't have a lot of problems and a lot of problems when I came out.

Levi Miller: Oh, I never did do drugs in the service but I guess about 80% of you know, we did they did do drugs in a service, but I have a lot of problem.

Levi Miller: When I came home I couldn't get along with anybody, I listen to my family or wife you know I could talk to them, but other people I couldn't I couldn't relate to I couldn't relate to at all.

Levi Miller: And I didn't start telling my experience, until maybe about three years ago, because I was told shut up don't say anything.

Levi Miller: And I know when I first got out I did a lot of classfied stuff I couldn't even talk to a psychologist when I came out.

Nadine Vogel:  Wow.

Levi Miller: You know, unless I got locked up, I think they lifted, that in 1986 

Nadine Vogel:  Wow. 

Levi Miller: I was in places that that the United States said we wasn't there, but we was there.

Levi Miller: Oh, you know it would just a mess I was sitting up at night in my bedroom with my first wife and stood up all night, all we thought was that the enemy was coming through I wouldn't get no sleep.

Levi Miller: Oh.

Levi Miller: My wife my well my wife now especially her, she helped she helped of other women's that their husband have been in the service with ptsd she she's a counselor so she teach them.

Levi Miller: But we put our wives through a lot of lot of I'm telling ya lot of trouble anger and a lot of trouble, you know, to try to understand us.

Nadine Vogel: Right right so so from what I hear then you're feeling like you know because of what the military is doing today.

Nadine Vogel: To help transition make that transition somewhat easier um that probably isn't as much bias, but i'm curious if we drill down further specifically to service disabled veterans today, 

Levi Miller: Yes

Nadine Vogel: What's your perspective on that.

Levi Miller: well.

Levi Miller: We we we disabled veterans, we need better job we need more training Oh, we need better health care because i'm gonna tell you something a lot of soldiers that went to Vietnam into regular army, we can go to the V-A the V-A won't tell us tell us what kind of benefits we got.

Norma Stanley:  I've heard that.

Levi Miller: Yeah i'm the reason I got my ID I had to go through Congress, I had to get me a lawyer, because I was turn down probably about four times.

Levi Miller: um I was infected with Agent Orange, which was a chemical.

Levi Miller: Oh it's do like 21 diseases, I got 11 out of them.

Nadine Vogel: Oh, my gosh.

Norma Stanley:  Wow.

Levi Miller: I know when I first went to the doctor, you know ahead of me paying my medical bill and some medication maybe pay $500 a month.

Nadine Vogel: Oh, my gosh.

Levi Miller: Then my lawyer in Congress said no you fought in the war, you know your stuff should be free.

Nadine Vogel:  Right.

Levi Miller: But you got to tell the V-A you go down there V-A not gonna tell you nothing and not going to tell you anything, you got to know that you got to tell them.

Nadine Vogel:  Right. Right.  Now, of course, if we.

Nadine Vogel: haven't veteran who's now working in private sector, then you know more than likely they would have their group health insurance, you know, through their employer and i'm assuming that would help dramatically.

Levi Miller: Yes, you can remember like agent orange the United States didn't claim agent orange until 2002 most most of Vietnam veterans was like 65 to 75 

Nadine Vogel:  Right.

Levi Miller: And we put our claim in what they do, they tried, but most of the fellas had died you know waiting on their claim 10, 15 years, 20 years.

Nadine Vogel:  Uh hm.

Levi Miller: years.

Levi Miller: You know so.

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Levi Miller: And what they try to do the soldiers, they they try to get them to to be able to submit a little quicker.

Levi Miller: But you know they they catch a lot they catch a lot of trouble too they not getting their medical like they supposed to.

Nadine Vogel: Right  right well Levi you know before we had this interview.

Nadine Vogel: Norma was sharing with me all of the amazing things that that you've done with your life as a result of these experiences.

Nadine Vogel: To to benefit others, and you know you start talking about other veterans and what you're doing there.

Nadine Vogel: But to me but to me what you are doing is a ministry right, it is a ministry for people.

NORMA STANLEY: It is absolutely a ministry it's important because so many of out vets are not getting the help.

Levi Miller:  That's right.

NORMA STANLEY: But what he's doing is a ministry absolutely.

Nadine Vogel: Right right exactly, and I think that that is critical critical to having the success that you're having. You know.

Nadine Vogel: I need to go on break, but when we come back I do want to talk about that because.

Levi Miller: Yes, I'll talk.

Nadine Vogel: Because I think that you know when we say ministry people immediately think religion right.

Nadine Vogel: But, but I think that what you're doing has the same impact.

Nadine Vogel: Right. To these veterans to these service disabled veterans and their families, and I just I want to talk about that because.

Nadine Vogel: For norma and myself, and we work quite a bit with veterans with service disabled veterans, especially within corporate America.

Nadine Vogel: And i'd love to talk a little bit more about that as well about you know the impact of that so let's go to commercial break and everybody stay tuned don't go anywhere, we will come back this is nadine vogel with norma Stanley and our guest today, Levi Miller.

Voiceover:  And now it's time for a commercial break.

Have you attended a springboard Consulting event? Well, you should, we have the best events and our 2022 events are just under way. Firstly is the Brg Summit happening on Tuesday, April 26th, and then following that is Disability Matters. North America Conference and Awards that's happening Wednesday and Thursday, April, 27 and 28. Both events are being delivered by a live stream. If interested in attending, please visit www.consultspringboard.com for more information.

Voiceover:  And now back to our show.


Nadine Vogel: Well Hello everyone welcome back to today's episode of disabled lives matter and don't forget it's more than a podcast, it is a movement.

Nadine Vogel: And part of today's movement is talking with our guest Levi Miller and i'm going to turn it back over to norma to continue this amazing conversation.

NORMA STANLEY: Well, thanks, and I just wanted to bring up the fact that levi's you know I guess determination to overcome.

NORMA STANLEY: Led to him doing a lot of amazing things, including starting this company that helped to employ people with disabilities to also a part of the entertainment industry at some point.

NORMA STANLEY: and doing some things in that area before you got into radio so tell us a little bit about that really quickly and we can get back to seeing how you how it led to what you're doing now.

Levi Miller: Okay. The first thing I'd like I say though I love you all, and I know all my veteran brothers and sisters love you all for what you all doing.

Levi Miller: Oh there's not many people that give us, you know talk to us give us help back, we need that most of all so your program I love it, you know I love what you all doing.

Levi Miller: And then start talking about what I was doing I had really bad ptsd like to 2013 of about five operation and it put me in a very depressing mood very depressed.

Levi Miller: ah you know, looking at the ceiling all day not wanting to talk anybody about it, nor do anything and then my wife and a good friend of mine.

Levi Miller: They would tell me say.

Levi Miller: That my wife told me so you need to go on radio, you need to start talking about about the veterans.

Levi Miller: She demand me, you know how you ladies, are you you all demand it, and we have to do it.

Norma Stanley:  We're persuasive.

Levi Miller: And, as I got started, I told I don't want do no radio leave alone talking about radio, then she said, you could open a veterans show you could talk about some of the problems you having and you know I got into that and now I love it I won't leave it.

Levi Miller: Uh cause now I get you know, to express to us soldiers you know our brothers and sisters what to do, how to go about doin' it and everything.

Levi Miller: So we built a platform, we got who WLMRDB show we reach veterans.

Levi Miller: All over the United States and overseas.

Levi Miller: Uh, you know, with past soldiers you know from the days back when I was in and future soldiers, that is what we're doing now, and so we do all of that, and it is very satisfying to me to knowing that I can you know you know when they disabled, knowing that I can be some help.

Levi Miller: Because you don't see help, like this, you know, or we don't get many programs, you know, like you and norma got nadine, so you know this, you know this this this really help us.

NORMA STANLEY: Well you know my step son was in the military and he served in Kuwait and then he came back, he would tell me that you know he always slept with one eye open.

NORMA STANLEY: And you know, because there were always bombs going off, you know they always had to be ready to go he's a 42 years old, now, and I know he's dealing with ptsd.

Levi Miller: He do.

NORMA STANLEY: From that experience he wasn't in an actual war but whatever he had to do, when he was in Iran  Kuwait area it affected him and it's still affecting him.

NORMA STANLEY: and his life, right now, and so you're like you're saying it's important for them to get the information that they need, so that they can.

NORMA STANLEY: reclaim their lives because whatever they dealt with and wherever they saw it, it really mess with them mentally which is you know causes them mental illness in some capacity that's not diagnosed in many cases.

Levi Miller: Right and I guarantee you he have ptsd I can guarantee that.

Levi Miller: Even, if they go through training of basic training he I-T, you know you start picking up stuff then because you know they drill you to be brainwashed and then you see some stuff or you know some stuff happening that you know that's really not real you know, but you have to go through all of it.

Levi Miller: Yes, you know you go to war just being in the service, you will get that ptsd.

Norma Stanley:  Yeah they see stuff we don't hear about on the news.

Levi Miller: Shell shock. They used to say shell shock.

Levi Miller: Before they came to ptsd.

NORMA STANLEY: yeah yeah they can't talk about everything that's actually being seen experienced um with by by some of these soldiers male and female so it's a real issue.

NORMA STANLEY: it's a real issue, and so you know.

NORMA STANLEY: kudos to what you're trying to do at least to.

NORMA STANLEY: not become homeless or if they are homeless aleast find a way to make some money that they can you know take care of themselves and their families.

NORMA STANLEY: So kudos to you and your company construction company that's been doing that. You say it's a non profit your. Construction company.

Levi Miller: We have a nonprofit that what we do with that nonprofit we take entertainment shows to military bases.

Levi Miller: Or we may take them uh my wife, has a more people ptsd counselor or we may put on an entertainment show there.

Nadine Vogel:  Oh wow.

Levi Miller: We may take stage plays to bases.

Levi Miller: We haven't had a trip to go overseas yet so we working on that process.

Levi Miller: But uh we do all of that, because I have another company too like a Boomer TV on roku devices.

Levi Miller: Oh, I have shows there entertainment shows there I have veterans

Levi Miller: Stories on there also too.

Nadine Vogel: i'm curious of the individuals that you employ and work with what percentage would you say have service related disabilities and then of that you know how is that different for you way what, what do you find as an employer, if anything, you need to do differently.

Levi Miller: I need to help more than what i've done.  You know I don't ever feel like i'm doing I don't feel like i'm doing enough.

Nadine Vogel:  Right.

Levi Miller: hey hey you know that the feeling I have because God bless me, you know the old comradery this, you know.

Levi Miller: stuff and stuff like that and i'm Like you, I like to give back and when we get back 

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Levi Miller:  You know I don't I don't want to be the spotlight the limelight I just want to give back.

Nadine Vogel: Right right and I completely get that from everything that you have shared with us, but i'm just curious as an employer, what do you find that you may need to do differently.

Nadine Vogel: Or that or how the experience the work experience is different.

Nadine Vogel: If the if the veteran has a disability or not, um then obviously different yet if it's visible or invisible.

Levi Miller: Yes, well, with you know veteran disability, you know I do a lot of talking with them, I try to be more than an employer I try to be their best friend.

Levi Miller: We call it war buddies.

Levi Miller: yeah yeah and um you know if you call me today, you need help and I got it i'm gonna help you that that's you know that's they way we do it.

Levi Miller: And I find that I build a better relationship and they know where i'm coming from because you know.

Levi Miller: They don't you know they got it and they know exactly where i'm coming from and we can kind of relate a little bit more closer you know when you've been there you've talked to somebody there you can become closer, because a lot of soldiers, they won't talk to you.

Levi Miller: Ah.

Levi Miller: Unless you know you've been in the military.

Levi Miller: I see the reason for that like when I came out, we talked to other people then they'll laugh you know.

Levi Miller: don't believe you know don't believe what we tell them then we give upset, so we wanna hurt people.

Levi Miller: So yeah oh it was drastic yeah.

NORMA STANLEY: Well like I said, the little bit i've seen just observing my stepson I know there's some situations that he needs to talk about and he won't.

NORMA STANLEY: And he won't so that's just reality.

Levi Miller: I heard of it, we need that we really need to talk about it that's why I say yo show you know the few other show that's what you all do cause us veterans, we need to talk about cause the longer we keep it in us it's just gonna get worse.

Levi Miller: And I learned that.

Nadine Vogel: And do you do you feel I mean Covid lets us, you know we're all dealing with covid now do you feel like covid is having.

Nadine Vogel: A greater impact um in any way for veterans than than the rest of us, I mean obviously everybody's talking about how they're experiencing anxiety and depression, you know so many things with the ambiguity.

Levi Miller: Right.

Nadine Vogel: Of what's happening, but i'm just wondering from your perspective and the vets you work with if you think that is a different hit on them, for some reason.

Levi Miller: Yes, I think, so too, because a lot of veterans can't get no healthcare they get sick, they can't go to the hospital aw.

Levi Miller: You know it's a lot going on, but as for me covid didn't really mess with me to much because I stay in the House anyway.

Levi Miller: So.

Levi Miller: I stay in the house, you know doing what I got to do.

Levi Miller: A know some that it did hurt a lot of people couldn't find no job and they was scared to find jobs all the veterans not getting, you know they fight like hell, excuse the cursing, to get that money you know, to support them and their family.

Levi Miller: And I know it did hurt a lot of love people to also to about not getting out and work that people are scared to go out.

Levi Miller: You know, they get sick because they don't have they don't have the money, you know they don't have the money.

Norma Stanley:  Yeah.

Levi Miller: You know, and when you got a family.

Levi Miller: You know, that's another thing, you know you can't support your family's especially the disabled veteran that do a lot to us to.

Levi Miller: You know that, do a lot to us too that we can support our family.

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Levi Miller: You know I got lucky, I sent.

Levi Miller: Uh two my daughters to college and paid for.  You know by the settlement that I got one of them is a doctor now one is a dental hygienists.

Nadine Vogel: Wow.


Levi Miller: And you know and they doing very good.

Nadine Vogel: Good.

Levi Miller: But a lot us you know, the veterans when they do get the money from the V-A or get their claim a lot of you know, spend it all on drugs well you know.

NORMA STANLEY: that's that's where their minds are.

Levi Miller: Right, because you try to do anything with to get your

Levi Miller: Mind off that depression, and you know, and everything else.  So you do you do anything that you know they take drugs because you're trying to get rid of the pain that they have.

Nadine Vogel: Right right and that's you know we we have at springboard we have a whole practice around mental health and and one of the things you know we tell folks is that you know you don't see mental health issues right.

Nadine Vogel: it's emotions feelings we don't see feelings and thoughts.

Levi Miller: No.

Nadine Vogel: It's important. Right. It's just a important to address as the physical disabilities, but unfortunately society still has a stigma.

Nadine Vogel: I think with that, and so, then that adds to that stigma that really you're talking about you know coming back from war, and I not getting support it's just you know it's something that I think has improved a lot over the years, but hasn't gone away at all.

Levi Miller: Right right.

Levi Miller: And let me tell you something funny here, maybe two years ago.

Levi Miller: I applied for a scooter.

Levi Miller: You know they wouldn't give me a scooter.

Levi Miller: I couldn't believe what the lady say at the V-A I thought they're gonna lock me up.

Levi Miller: And then later finally told me she go give me my scooter.

Levi Miller: And you know, like, I told her you healthy, you can walk around with your husband you can go anywhere way you want to go.

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Levi Miller: You know I I can't barely go anywhere you go to walmart and you have to wait on a scooter.

Nadine Vogel: Oh, my.

Levi Miller: And I just went off, I went off.

Nadine Vogel: Oh, my gosh.

Norma Stanley.  Wow.

Nadine Vogel: You know, you know we have to be kind to one another, I don't care what the situation is, you know I think first and foremost, people have to just learn how to be kind.

Levi Miller: Right.

Nadine Vogel: Right. Cause it's comments like that are not kind any way, shape or form and imagine if Levi, you know you when she said that to you, you are actively experiencing mental health issues.

Nadine Vogel: That could have easly escalated right.

Levi Miller: Yes.

Nadine Vogel.  And some people don't understand for some reason.

Levi Miller: And it happens us at the V-A there is a lot of us, you know that escalate and you could wind up in the hospital right, you know it can it can get rough at times.

Nadine Vogel:  I bet it can.

Levi Miller: There's a lot of personnel there.

Levi Miller: That never been in the service.

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Levi Miller: Well and most of them don't even know about Agent Orange for the older veteran.

Nadine Vogel: Right right.

Levi Miller: I was lucky.  You counsel them, you don't know, even know.

Levi Miller: You need to know what this, solider went through.

Nadine Vogel: Right right. Absolutely. 

Levi Miller: You know to talk to them any kinda way, it don't work. No.

Nadine Vogel: Oh, my goodness, I you know I hate to say this, but we are out of time I cannot believe this half hour has flown.

Nadine Vogel: I looked at the clock and was like where did that time go. oh my gosh Levi think you so much for sharing your story.

Levi Miller:  Okay.

Nadine Vogel: Your personal passion and mission and ministry to work with help support and encourage veterans and especially veterans with service disabilities, we are so appreciative of what you do.

Levi Miller:  Okay.

Nadine Vogel: And appreciate you sharing your story.

Nadine Vogel: norma Thank you.

Nadine Vogel: Thank you for bringing Levi to us.

Levi Miller:  Okay. May I say this before I leave.

Nadine Vogel: Yeah please.

Levi Miller: You all were so easy to talk to.

Levi Miller: If I had people like you talk to me like you talking to a back in.

Levi Miller: Back in the day I would have been a lot better.

Levi Miller: And you know.

Levi Miller: I say that from my heart. I got tears in my eyes now. I say thing from my heart.

Nadine Vogel: Thank you Levi it was an absolute.

Nadine Vogel: Pleasure, and I know that our listeners are going to feel exactly the same way so with that norma my God it's another episode of disabled lives matter remember it's more than a podcast it.

Nadine Vogel: it's a movement, and we need you all to join the movement so until next time bye everybody.

NORMA STANLEY: Have a blessed one, bye bye.

Closing comment:  [Music playing in background.] Thank you for listening to this week's episode of disabled lives matter. We look forward to seeing you next Thursday.  Have a great week!

Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed during the Disabled Lives Matter podcast series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Springboard Global Enterprises, Springboard Productions, and its employees, contractors, subsidiaries, and affiliates.  The developers of the Disabled Lives Matter podcast are not responsible and do not verify for accuracy any of the information contained in the podcast series available for listening on the Podbean hosting site and/or any other associated hosting entity. The Primary purpose of this series is to educate and inform, and does not constitute disability, medical and/or other professional advice, and/or service(s). This podcast is available for private, non-commercial use only. Advertising incorporated into, in association with, or targeted toward the content of this podcast, without the express approval and knowledge of the Disabled Lives Matter's site developers is forbidden. You may not edit, modify, or redistribute this podcast.  The developers of the Disabled Lives Matter site assume no liability for any activities in connection with this podcast or for use of this podcast in connection with any other Website, Computer, and/or listening device.



October 7, 2021

Disabled Lives Matter
Season 1, Episode 32
Co-Hosts: Nadine Vogel & Norma Stanley
Guest: Lionel Woodyard

Intro: [Music playing in background] Disabled Lives Matter... here we go!

Voiceover: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the disabled lives matter podcast with co-hosts Nadine Vogel and Norma Stanley… yay!

Nadine Vogel: Hello Hello everyone I am nadine vogel your co host of disabled lives matter and joining me today we have who do we have norma.

NORMA STANLEY: it's norma stanley Hello how's everybody today.

Nadine Vogel: norma you and I just have so much fun doing this don't we.

Nadine Vogel: disable lives matter is a podcast, but it is more than a podcast, it is a movement, and in order to really have a successful movement, you have to have amazing people on your show, and we are doing that, today, with Lionel woodyard Lionel, thank you for joining us today.

Lionel Woodyard: Thank you for allowing me and ask i'm glad to be a part.

Nadine Vogel: Oh good good so let's start with the fact that, as far as I know you do not have a disability, but are in fact a disability advocate Is that correct.

Lionel Woodyard: I work in an environment with people with disabilities.

Lionel Woodyard: But most of them have some unknown disability seen and not seeing.

Lionel Woodyard: and are.

Lionel Woodyard: capable eligible to possibly at some point in your life become a part of the disabled community.

Nadine Vogel: Absolutely it's one of those communities we can all join.

Lionel Woodyard: I didn't learn that until later so i'm not being smart, but we all are capable of possible candidates to be a part of a Community that is the largest minority community on the planet.

Nadine Vogel: Absolutely it's one of those groups any of us can join at any time.

Nadine Vogel: Now you are i'll say your day job you own a limo and transportation company correct.

Lionel Woodyard: Well i'm retired from Clark Atlanta university.

Lionel Woodyard: But because of the retirement I started Atlanta Chauffeur Service, which is a bible business now Atlanta Chauffer Service based in Atlanta, but we do transportation anywhere on the planet.

Nadine Vogel: Oh wow.

Lionel Woodyard: So that business still thrives but because of Covid we haven't been very very active.

Lionel Woodyard: So I do some.

Lionel Woodyard: Other things in the transportation arena.

Nadine Vogel: got it got it so share with us, if you will, your introduction to the disability community.

Lionel Woodyard: In 1970 I attended mobile state Community college well there, it was junior high.

Lionel Woodyard: And I saw a sign it's it's summer job camp New York, I had no possible.

Lionel Woodyard: Summer job opportunity that i'm wantedto pursue.

Lionel Woodyard: camp i've been I mean eagle scout.

Lionel Woodyard: work.

Lionel Woodyard: At a boy scout camp six consecutive summers as an eagle scout but the hook was New York.

Lionel Woodyard: going to New York from Alabama.

Lionel Woodyard: Okay flying on the airplane which I hadn't done nor anyone in my family had done that part of the story is quite interesting but but I worked at a camp in upstate New York, we part of the story.

Lionel Woodyard: called amounts in New York and the name of the camp is Jened camp Jened and it says camp jened for the handicap, which was the word back then.

Lionel Woodyard: My in my interview with Mr gene Morgan who hired me to work at this camp I don't recall him, saying that the camp was for handicap kids and adults yet that was part of the interview would not have mattered, I was interested in getting out of out of Alabama.

Lionel Woodyard: Looking back over it now I don't think that I got a job, I think that I have an invitation.

Lionel Woodyard: To be there as.

Lionel Woodyard: those others who came to be there in summer 1970 they were invited by something really, really special and we call that the jened spirit invited us.

Nadine Vogel: Okay, very cool so tell us to tell us what was it like being part of that camp.

Lionel Woodyard: It freed me the first time I felt a part of a Community of the human community.

Lionel Woodyard: Cause growing up in mobile Alabama in 1970 things were still new in terms of.

Lionel Woodyard: Diversity in terms of access being able to go places and do things you know I grew up in the 50s and 60s in mobile Alabama in the south.

Lionel Woodyard: Where there were laws that said, people could not be together, you could even sit on a park bench with someone who was not the same race that you are you know that I grew up in that environment so i'm going to this camp.

Lionel Woodyard: For the first time interacting with people that were none African American.

Lionel Woodyard: That was very, very new and refreshing to me let me tell you something i've worked at the camp, the boy scout team as an eagle scout who prior to working on.

Lionel Woodyard: at jened I work as an eagle scout prior to going to jened this is what happened there were two camps pushmataha and leon roberts they were both segregated

Nadine Vogel: Ah.

Lionel Woodyard: Leon Roberts was the black camp pushmataha was a white camp united way said, unless you stop this segregated scouting we're not going to fund you so they built one big camp.

Lionel Woodyard: at Camp Leon Roberts eagle scout Lionel taught swimming and camp mirrored that.

Lionel Woodyard: At the new White can eagle scout Lionel worked in the commissary washing dishes.

Lionel Woodyard: job is not treated as an equal to the other staff members right when I went to Camp Jened

Nadine Vogel: Umm.

Lionel Woodyard: I was hired as a counselor and a swimming instructor that's exactly what I did I became a counselor and swimming instructor I remember the day we arrived it was a Sunday Sunday night we flew up from mobile Alabama.

Lionel Woodyard: No one in my group there was six of us had ever flown on a plane.

Nadine Vogel: So it sounds like it was inclusive, though, for you on so many different levels.

Lionel Woodyard: It was totally inclusive, it was inclusive.

Lionel Woodyard: In terms of diversity, and it was inclusive in terms of our cultural inclusiveness.

Lionel Woodyard: In terms of being exposed to a new culture, because most people never meet anyone with a disability right.

Nadine Vogel: Right So what did you learn from that, what did you learn about the disability community by being that camp counselor.

Lionel Woodyard: First person who I shook hands with the camp was a counselor named Paul Goodman he was born with.

Lionel Woodyard: A disability his hands was not his hand was not a hand

Lionel Woodyard: But what he had he stuck out to shake.

Lionel Woodyard: So I grasped it and shook and said okay all right, you know he didn't have any inhibitions about who he was.

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Lionel Woodyard: And his gesture Jewish guy I guess it was that of acceptance, so I now, felt, oh Okay, this is going to be different.

Nadine Vogel:  Right.

Lionel Woodyard: So I gain a sense of freedom and and inclusion.

Nadine Vogel: Did you have.

Nadine Vogel: So beyond beyond that inclusive nature, would you say that they were Aha moments for you they're like oh my gosh oh my gosh like just.

Lionel Woodyard: During the training. We were there for an entire week training to work with kids and adults who would be coming to the camp from New York City with disabilities, if you don't know what a disability is but that one or 2, 3, 4 people riding around getting around the camp, who are in wheelchairs.

Nadine Vogel: Hum.. 

Lionel Woodyard: And i'll say okay. Because most of us have never seen anyone with with my grandmother was in a wheelchair, but she was not disabled right right she was grandma in a wheelchair, we didn't no.

Nadine Vogel: [laughter]

Lionel Woodyard: Okay, but here they are 200 wheelchair, people are people in wheelchairs coming in one week's time and there are a lot of things and you're going to have to do.

Lionel Woodyard: As a counselor to make the lives work so in order for you to understand what this is, we have a Litmus tests, they took a hat and you reached in and pulled out your disability for twenty four hours


Nadine Vogel: Yep.

Lionel Woodyard: Okay, so if you were blind your disability was being visually impaired, they visually impaired, you.

Lionel Woodyard: For twenty-four hours and everything you did was that I was cerebral palsy.

Lionel Woodyard: And it put me in a wheelchair, and they really, really tied my legs, so I couldn't and my arms.

Lionel Woodyard: Okay.

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Lionel Woodyard: And I had to allow someone to take me to the bathroom, okay.

Nadine Vogel: To take me to the shower.

Nadine Vogel: wow.

Lionel Woodyard: And to feed me.

Lionel Woodyard: You see, the reason I said I was invited because some people who showed up. couldn't do it

Nadine Vogel:  yeah yeah.

Lionel Woodyard: I stayed I accepted the invitation and got an understanding of what would be happening so my Aha moment is Aha okay your ultimate humanity comes out when you.

Lionel Woodyard: Work with someone with a disability, your ultimate because if you wash someone face other than yours, you have to do it as if you're washing your own face.

Nadine Vogel: Absolutely.

Lionel Woodyard: Taking someone to the bathroom.

Nadine Vogel: Absolutely absolutely now that's that's really important, thank you for sharing that, so we have to just take a very short break so for our listeners do not go away we're having this amazing conversation.

Nadine Vogel: And, and when we come back we're going to talk about the movie that's been made with some of your old friends and talk about how to this movement keeps moving forward so stay tuned everybody will be right back.

Voiceover:  And now it's time for a commercial break.

Have you attended a springboard Consulting event? Well, you should, we have the best events and our 2022 events are just under way. Firstly is the Brg Summit happening on Tuesday, April 26th, and then following that is Disability Matters. North America Conference and Awards that's happening Wednesday and Thursday, April, 27 and 28. Both events are being delivered by a live stream. If interested in attending, please visit www.consultspringboard.com for more information.

Voiceover:  And now back to our show.


Nadine Vogel: Hello everyone, this is nadine vogel and norma Stanley. 


Nadine Vogel:  Back with another great episode of disabled lives matter and we are talking with Lionel woodyard and norma I think you had some questions you'd like to ask, Lionel.

NORMA STANLEY: Well yeah I mean I just love the fact that Lionel was able to stay in touch with some of the people, he became friends with back at Camp Jened, and some of these people now internationally known disability activists and you know, Oscar nominated directors tell us about.

NORMA STANLEY: Those people and how it feels to be connected, with those people what's going on now.

Lionel Woodyard: Well, we were more family.

Nadine Vogel: yeah.

Lionel Woodyard: We were a family.

Lionel Woodyard: I went up summer 70.

Lionel Woodyard: I went back up summer 71.

Lionel Woodyard: I went back up summer 72 thinking that that would be my last time before getting a job that was the year that I graduated college and I went back up.

Lionel Woodyard: Um, the first year.

Lionel Woodyard: I you became so connected to the camp outside, in addition to the Councelors but, more importantly, the campus I still  remember Clifford Seagle, Calvin Cruthers, Scott Menthal, Edmond Cremmins, ah Carrie Walker.

Lionel Woodyard: Um... I thought this guy's today Lopez john McCormick who taught me sign in one of them no in one day because we you learn the ABC's with john you know.

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Lionel Woodyard: It would be years I would be driving and I would I taught all my children how to do the ABC's in sign.

Nadine Vogel: Wow.

Lionel Woodyard: But you remember them because they became an intricate part of who you are.

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Lionel Woodyard:  I could still hear Clifford Seagle's voice.

NORMA STANLEY: But you also know people like miss Judy Heumann and Jim LeBrecht.

NORMA STANLEY: Part of the netflix documentary Oscar nominated documentary crip camp, and you still stayed friends with them for all these years.

Lionel Woodyard: Okay let's go with this summer 72 after the summer 72 I moved from Alabama to New York, I live with Larry Allison who's on the film the big guy that was digging holes for the kids there.

Lionel Woodyard: he's the greatest guy in the world, he was a person that that may it understood that the disability, the world was disabled.

Lionel Woodyard: Yes, we didn't provide access for the people it wasn't the people that had a problem it was the world. 

Nadine Vogel: Yep.

Lionel Woodyard:  And he became the New York City czar for disability, so when I moved to New York, I live in his home jack geckelman or sheldon corey Jim LaBecht. Brecht was my camper.

Nadine Vogel: [laughter].

Lionel Woodyard: On Jim LaBrecht was my camper.

Nadine Vogel: wow.

Lionel Woodyard: I have a picture of Jim LaBrecht and I we work just just every day you woke up you were on it until sunup to sundown you were. doing things and experiences.

Nadine Vogel:  And Jim is the Co director of the film I think crip camp right.

Lionel Woodyard: Jim is a Co director of the film from.

Lionel Woodyard: High School went to California for college he went to San Diego state to major in music in our in sound he wanted to be the sound technician for the grateful dead.

Nadine Vogel: [laughter].

Lionel Woodyard: And, most of the New York community, that had started disabled in action moved out to California.

Lionel Woodyard: Judy Heumann on Judy Judy is the most courageous bad ass woman you ever want to meet period if I had a knife fight in an alley I want Judy Heumann in that fight with me.

Nadine Vogel: [laughter].

Lionel Woodyard: she's such a.

Lionel Woodyard: sweet really dynamic woman who refuse to be denied.

Lionel Woodyard: Man she she got a degree in education, when she was told to major in social work she didn't want to major in social work she wanted to be a teacher, she was told she couldn't be a teacher because she's a fire hazzard.

Lionel Woodyard: Yeah. You know, in the interview that Judy Heuman when Judy Heumann got her job of started being a.

Lionel Woodyard: There were people like myself and Sheldon Court supposedly non disabled people who were part of the organization, but the organization was run by individuals with disabilities.

Lionel Woodyard: So, so we stayed in touch over the years, even through phone calls and you just heard, where people were, but when the Internet happened then we were able to really connect but I've been going out to California visiting Jim for years, and he to to would be here in the summer.

Nadine Vogel: wow wow that's that's amazing I you know, I think.

Nadine Vogel: you're listening to this, I it almost makes me want to ask every single person.

Nadine Vogel: To do something in the disability Community if they're not disabled themselves or don't have a disabled family member to do something in the disability Community to be able to feel that invitation that you felt.

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Lionel Woodyard: Yeah.

Nadine Vogel: And come away with the learnings and the perspective and appreciation that that you've come away with because that's what we're missing we're missing that from a human rights perspective we're missing it from a diversity perspective I don't know how you feel about that.

Lionel Woodyard:  Well.  I think that the world has to open up so that people with disabilities, become more visible.

Nadine Vogel: yep.

Lionel Woodyard: You understand.  See still my nephew Malcolm has cerebral palsy.

Lionel Woodyard: Malcolm is. 26-27 he went to school at Monday's Meal, Monday's Meal is the name of the school here and and and our Atlanta he went to regular school.

Nadine Vogel:  uh huh.

Lionel Woodyard: Okay.  His mother has made Malcolm an intricate part of the family and of the Community and the same with Norma.

Lionel Woodyard: Norma's daughter Sierra is an intricate part of the family and the Community, but for every Sierra Stanley and for every Malcolm Janckie Janckie there 34,000 other kids who we never see and a lot of it has to do with parenting.

Nadine Vogel: Yes. 

Lionel Woodyard: Okay.  Some parents don't want their children, but either they are over protective, not over protecting protecting them, you know, but the more we see and become exposed to people with.

Nadine Vogel: Yes.

Lionel Woodyard: visible disabilities, we recognize the person before we recognize the disability.

Nadine Vogel: absolutely.

Lionel Woodyard: Accepting, the world will become for disabilities, I get pissed off with you know we have a look at the grocery store and you see a car parked in a disabled parking.

Nadine Vogel: Yup.

Lionel Woodyard: I walk around to see.  

Nadine Vogel: [laughter].


Lionel Woodyard: I walk around the card to see if they have a tag. I say Oh, maybe I see him in the store.  If they're not I curse.

Nadine Vogel: yeah yeah.

Nadine Vogel: yeah I know because you know, like you said earlier, you know it's one of those.

Nadine Vogel: it's one of those communities that anyone can join at any time yet.

Nadine Vogel: If you look how people with disabilities are often treated it's no one wants to join that Community unless, of course, like to your point oh it's benefiting me by parking in an accessible spot when I when I shouldn't be.

Nadine Vogel: You know I drive it's like nails on a chalkboard to me, so I agree with you completely.

NORMA STANLEY: You know what no we gotta go soon, but I wanted Lionel to share, about the historic site that they're doing at camp jened.

Nadine Vogel: Oh yeah please.

Lionel Woodyard: All right, as you know.

Lionel Woodyard: Camp jened is why there was a film called crip camp.

Lionel Woodyard: yep it's based on the movement that came out of crip camp, not that it was the beginning of the movement, it was a movement that was sparked more set on fire by by camp Jened by the likes of Judy Heumann and Larry Allison and Denise Denise Sharod Jacobson now, who was hoot hot.

Lionel Woodyard: woman.

Lionel Woodyard: I used to tell Denise's husband, that I love your wife.

Nadine Vogel: [laughter].

Lionel Woodyard: Densie says, if you remember in the film was just phenomenal.

Nadine Vogel: yeah .

Lionel Woodyard: but oh.

Lionel Woodyard: Oh.

Lionel Woodyard: You know I'm over 71 what was the question, I got the question I think.

NORMA STANLEY: it's about the historic. They are making it a historic site, camp jened.

Lionel Woodyard: The film and the camp.

Lionel Woodyard: I talk with people within the Community as event, we need to get a historic a marker because half those people are going to want to know where is the camp.

Nadine Vogel: Absolutely.

Lionel Woodyard: So, so we call up to the hunter mountain and we were very, very warmly received by.

Lionel Woodyard: By DD Fork it's this DD Fork which is the first person I talked to.

Lionel Woodyard: Linda Gary an attorney that's a part of the city council up there.

Lionel Woodyard: And Gary. Slovsky

Lionel Woodyard: I'm not sure how he 

Lionel Woodyard: pronounces it.

Lionel Woodyard: I think this is incorrect.

Lionel Woodyard: They they they They grabbed the ball and got it rolling.

Nadine Vogel: Then the things that had to be done, the state.

Lionel Woodyard: of New York had to get involved.

Lionel Woodyard: But the site of camp jened which is now a construction company.

Lionel Woodyard: will be designated as a historic place in the State of New York October 2 2021 and I'll be there i'm going to M-C the dedication and hopefully read a letter from Barack Obama.

Lionel Woodyard: Barack and Michelle Obama became Executive Director of the film crip camp we have right now 30 odd people that are from the Jened family that are coming from as far away as California and Arizona.

Lionel Woodyard: We have had heard the camp camp America counselors from Europe, a woman named Chris and a guy from Poland, who worked at the camp have seen some of the publicity and they're they're not going to be there, but their wishes are going to be there.

Lionel Woodyard: We commissioned I commissioned we commissioned a t-shirt that says.

Lionel Woodyard: Camp Camp Jened 

Nadine Vogel: uh huh.

Lionel Woodyard: a spirit.

Lionel Woodyard: That sparked the disability.

Lionel Woodyard: rights movement.

Nadine Vogel: Nice 

Lionel Woodyard: changing the world forever.

Nadine Vogel:  I love it.

Lionel Woodyard: Camp Jened spirit lives still.

Nadine Vogel:  Awe, I love it.

Lionel Woodyard: Exists two wheelchairs on there.  That shirt is available if you email because we don't have anything online.

Lionel Woodyard: But for those out there who are interested in getting this once is. This this.

Lionel Woodyard: Is family.

Nadine Vogel:  yes.

Lionel Woodyard: Should, Join the Jened family and get a shirt.

Lionel Woodyard: Well, October second or after and October 2 from this point on they all will be camp jened day.

Nadine Vogel: I love I love it I love it and norma, we need to ask, we definitely need to ask um.

Nadine Vogel: Who else wants to get the shirts, you know, we should talk to some folks about doing well.

Lionel Woodyard: i'll give you my email address can.

NORMA STANLEY: Do that right now.

Lionel Woodyard: Yes, send it, send it to lionelje@aol.com yeah i'm still AOL.

Lionel Woodyard: Or send it to Lionelwoodyard@gmail.com

Lionel Woodyard: give me your size your mailing address, and we will get back to you phone numbers are better for me cause I call people.

Nadine Vogel: yeah that sounds that sounds great because we actually have Judy Heumann on speaking she's like a keynote speaker at a small disability event that springboard is my company is hosting on Tuesday virtually so.

Nadine Vogel: This is a perfect timing.

Lionel Woodyard: Tell her you talked to Lionel.  Have you read judy's Book.

Nadine Vogel: Yes.

Lionel Woodyard: That book is off the chain.

Nadine Vogel: I know, I know.

Lionel Woodyard: I know often times I listened to Judy's books, I like to listen audiblely.

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Lionel Woodyard: The woman who's reading judy's book is almost as feisty, as Judy.

Lionel Woodyard: that's my girl I love July, i've been in touch with her since 1970 we kept in touch.

Nadine Vogel: Well, I will definitely tell you said hello, this is perfect timing and Lionel Thank you so so much for joining us today, I think that I know that our listeners are going to benefit from hearing from your story and and I know I did I just enjoy just talking with you norma same here right.

NORMA STANLEY: yeah well you know Lionel and I have become pretty good friends, so I appreciate him taking time out of his schedule to participate with us on disabled lives matter and we look forward to learning more about that historic site at camp jened, so thank you, Lionel.

Nadine Vogel: Absolutely.

Lionel Woodyard: Here about crip camp, see crip camp and you'll see the family.

Nadine Vogel: yeah absolutely.

Nadine Vogel: Thank you once again and for our listeners, we know that you enjoyed this episode and we will see you next time on disabled lives matter bye everybody.

NORMA STANLEY: bye bye be blessed 

Lionel Woodyard:  Thank you.

Closing comment:  [Music playing in background.] Thank you for listening to this week's episode of disabled lives matter. We look forward to seeing you next Thursday.  Have a great week!

Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed during the Disabled Lives Matter podcast series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Springboard Global Enterprises, Springboard Productions, and its employees, contractors, subsidiaries, and affiliates.  The developers of the Disabled Lives Matter podcast are not responsible and do not verify for accuracy any of the information contained in the podcast series available for listening on the Podbean hosting site and/or any other associated hosting entity. The Primary purpose of this series is to educate and inform, and does not constitute disability, medical and/or other professional advice, and/or service(s). This podcast is available for private, non-commercial use only. Advertising incorporated into, in association with, or targeted toward the content of this podcast, without the express approval and knowledge of the Disabled Lives Matter's site developers is forbidden. You may not edit, modify, or redistribute this podcast.  The developers of the Disabled Lives Matter site assume no liability for any activities in connection with this podcast or for use of this podcast in connection with any other Website, Computer, and/or listening device.


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